The Argument of evil, pan, and suffering
I) The Atheistic Argument
1) The argument
A) God is all-powerful
B) God is all-loving
C) Evil, pain, and suffering exist
D) Since God is all-powerful then He has the ability to eliminate all evil, pain, and
suffering. Since God is all-loving He would eliminate all evil, pain, and
suffering.
E) Since evil, pain, and suffering do exist, then God must either not have the
power to eliminate these things, or He has the ability to do such yet chooses
not to, therefore He is not either all-powerful or not all-loving or both.
F) Therefore God does not exist.
2) This is the only argument that I am aware of that tries to show that God does not
exist. All others allow for the possibility of the existence of God but try to show
that the concept is not plausible or reasonable. This argument makes the
positive knowledge statement that, in fact, God does not exist.
3) First, let us examine the argument for its problems, then explain why these things
have to exist.
4) Premise #1; God is all-powerful
A) The premise is trying to show that God can do anything and everything. That
there are no limits to God’s power.
B) The failure of this point is the fact that although God is all-powerful
(creation ex niliho or out of nothing Gen. 1&2, destruction off all material
things 2 Peter 3:9-13; etc...) He does have limitations to this power.
1) God cannot do something contrary to His divine nature. For example,
God cannot, by nature, exist and not exist at the same time. This is
a logical contradiction. By nature, God is logical, therefore He cannot
create a logical contradiction
2) God cannot create a married bachelor. This is not logically possible.
God has the power to change a man from a bachelor to a married man
just by His will. Yet, He cannot make the man both at the same time.
3) Again, God cannot make a perfectly square circle. It is just not
logically possible.
4) This is not to say that God is limited in His power in the sense that
He cannot do something that is logically possible to do. It is to say
that He is limited to do that which is only logically possible. God
has the power to do any and all things that are logically possible. In
this sense, He is all-powerful.
5) This point will become extremely important when we discuss the
reasons why evil, pain, and suffering exist.
5) Premises #2; God is all-loving
A) This premise is trying to show that God, being all-loving, would not allow
bad things to happen to the ones He loves.
B) The failure of this premise is a misunderstanding of what actual love is and
does. True love allows bad things to happen.
1) The love of a parent to a child is a great example of how actual love
acts.
a) A parents sole responsibility to their child is to prepare them for
life outside of their home. The pain and suffering that the child
may have to endure are for a greater good which is life outside
the protection of the parents.
b) Johnnie turns 16 and wants a car. The parent has two options
to choose from, 1) buy the car for him or, 2) Let Johnnie pay
for the car himself. If the parent chooses #1, they are not
allowing Johnnie to learn the values that are essential to life
outside of the home. Things such as responsibility, value of
the item, etc... These values are essential for the child to learn
in order for the child to cope with life outside of the home.
c) If the parent chooses #2, the parent is showing genuine love for
the child. Yes, the child will suffer some pain either emotional
or physical. The parent will allow this to happen to the child
in order for a greater good to come about, namely, the ability to
cope in the world. Does this show that the parent does not love
the child, no, it actually shows the love of the parent for the
child. The parent realizes the greater good that should come
about as a result of their actions.
d) Side note. In choosing #2 the parent also feels pain and
suffering. Yet the love that the parent has is greater than the
pain that they will endure. One important thing to remember
here is that the parent will be their when the child is
experiencing the suffering. They will be their to comfort,
counsel, understand, etc... The child is not left in the dark.
2) Another great example is the suffering and death of Jesus on the cross.
This was done out of love (Romans 5:5-10). It was done in order to
accomplish a greater good, that being the salvation of mankind.
3) The importance of this distinction will be seen later.
6) Premise #3 and #4
A) These two premises are false due to the fact that the concept of all-powerful
and all-loving are misunderstood by the atheist.
B) In having this misunderstanding, the premises are unfounded.
7) Conclusion is false
A) The conclusion is false since premise #3 and #4 are false.
B) Therefore the argument does not logically follow.
II) Reasons why God allows evil, pain, and suffering to exist.
1) Evil
A) Evil, to exist requires intent, purpose, and will. Pain, suffering, etc.
in and of itself is not evil, only will or intention behind the cause of
suffering can make it evil. Should you fall off your bike and break your
arm, the pain that you experience cannot be called evil. However, should
I break your arm, that can be called evil because of the evil intent I put
behind it.
B) Evil is actually a mental and spiritual act. My holding thoughts of murdering
my mother is evil, even if I do not act upon them. (Matt. 5:20-42)
C) When presented with this, the proponent of the argument will usually
concede this fact. Once done the argument usually changes. They will
eliminate evil and focus upon the pain and suffering.
2) Free will
A) This has to do with the power that mankind has to choose
to follow after good or not.
B) The primary focus of this line of reasoning is in defense of the
all-powerful God.
C) Remember what was stated under item #4, in which we saw that God
cannot act contrary to His logical nature.
D) The force in this reasoning is in the fact that God cannot create a universe
that is free from all pain, and suffering and still give mankind freewill.
1) If God created a universe that could not have these things as a part of
it then mankind could not choose to do them and thus we would not
have free will.
2) This would necessitate a logical contradiction which God cannot
create.
E) The fall of mankind illiterates this concept.
1) When God created the universe and the earth it is stated that it was
good. This implies perfection at the beginning. There was no such
thing as pain and suffering.
2) As the story unfolds we find God giving commands to Adam. He was
to dress the garden, name the animals, to name Eve, and probably
some others that we are not told of. One of the commands included
a stipulation. Namely Gen. 2:17 in which God command Adam not to
eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. The stipulation
that came with this command was the fact that if Adam disobeyed it
he would surely die.
3) If the universe was created in such a way that pain and suffering could
not exist, then the command could not have been given. If the
command could not be given, then Adam could not have the choice
to follow the command or not to follow the command. This would
thus eliminate free will.
4) The only way that free will can exist is if the possibility of pain and
suffering to come into existence exists. God cannot create a married
bachelor.
F) Some do in fact argue that the concept of free will is illusionary at best.
1) Some claim that we really do not have free will since we cannot choose
to become God.
a) This is contradictory.
b) It is contradictory since a created being cannot become an
uncreated being (one that has existed eternally). In order for
a being to be God it must, of necessity, be eternal in nature
(without a cause). A created being must, of necessity, have a
cause. A being cannot be both caused and uncaused at the
same time.
c) Yet we can make the decision to be God and believe it with
all our might. Yet it does not make it fact simply because
we choose to become God. The choice is there, the realization
of that choice is not.
2) Still others say that what we think is free will is really some type of
determinism.
a) An example such as the act of eating shows that free will does
not exist. We have to eat in order to survive.
b) It is true that we must eat in order to survive. This is not a
matter of choice. Yet we, as humans, still have a choice to
make. This choice is one of the things that separates us from
the rest of creation. The choice to survive or not.
c) People choose not to eat all the time, it is called fasting. A
conscious choice is made whether to eat or not to eat. While
fasting, the choice is made not to eat. When the time of
fasting is over, a choice is made to eat. A person has the
ability to starve themselves to death if they so desire. Martin
Luther is an example of such a case. On one occasion he
fasted for three weeks in an attempt to purify his soul. He
would have died had not one of the monks entered into his
cell and found him near death and nursed him back to health.
G) This fact also shows that God is an all-loving God
1) Since God cannot create a universe that allows for free will and at the
same time create a universe without pain and suffering, God created
it anyway. He created the universe to allow free will to exist instead
of disallowing it.
2) Read Eph. 3:8-11
3) There are several things which we can glean from this section of
Scripture:
a) There was an eternal purpose 3:11.
b) This purpose was that the manifold wisdom of God was to
shown to all mankind by the church 3:9&10.
c) This was to be done by the church 3:10
d) In essence, the ETERNAL purpose of God was to be shown
to all mankind by the CHURCH.
4) This indicates that the church was in God’s eternal purpose.
5) What is the church comprised of? It is comprised of those who saved
from their sins by believing, repenting, confessing, and being baptized.
6) This indicates that God (being all-knowing) knew that mankind would
revolt against Him from eternity. God has always known that mankind
would disobey His commands. This is of primary importance. If God
knew that mankind would act in such a way and cause Him pain
(Matt.23:37-39), why would He create it in the first place.
a) It was out of love.
b) Why do parents plan on having children? We all know that they
will rebel, disobey, and even sometimes revolt toward them.
We see this in every day experience. It is because of the love
that we have for them. They know that these things will
happen, yet they have them anyway.
c) This concept is the same for God. He knew we would rebel,
revolt, and disobey. He could have chosen not to create the
universe on those grounds. Yet the love of God toward His
creation was, I believe, a major factor in His actions.
7) God, creating mankind with free will shows His love.
a) The only possible universe that God could create in order
for free will to exist has to, of necessity, include pain and
suffering.
b) If God had created a universe void of pain and suffering, he
would have had to have created mankind without free will.
c) Therefore mankind would be mere robots.
d) This would seem to indicate a cruel creator instead of a loving
one. Friedrich Nietzsche stated that given the choice between
existence with free will or nonexistence he would choose
existence every time.
e) This concept seems intuitively true in that free choice is
always best for the being. It is what is best for them. Just
ask someone who has had that taken away from them.
H) Free will explains most of the pain and suffering that exists in the world.
1) Free will is either directly or indirectly responsible for most of the
pain and suffering we see today. Examples of this abound.
a) Free will is directly responsible for things such as lung cancer,
obesity, psoriasis of the liver, the majority of heath problems
mankind experiences today. Also it is responsible for many
emotional pains as well.
b) Free will is indirectly responsible for things such as 9/11,
casualties of war, the sober person who is involved in an
accident with a drunk driver, etc...
2) In all these examples, and many more could be listed, an incorrect
choice was made, and because of that choice pain and suffering
was felt by someone.
3) Greater good or the perfect world
A) There are some arguments from the point of the greater good
1) Pain and suffering brings about the greater good by allowing
mankind to identify that something is wrong.
a) Pain in the chest is a warning sign that something is wrong
and we should get it checked out. This pain and suffering
results in a greater good. The prolonging of life.
b) The pain and suffering that we feel when we realize that our
actions have caused this (free will). You are involved is a
relationship with an individual that has a shaky past. They
cheat on you and you feel emotional pain. Because of this
you will be more likely to be cautious in selecting the next
time. The pain you felt was for a greater good.
2) There are many more examples that we could discuss. They all show
the same thing. Sometimes pain and suffering are a good thing.
3) These can explain most of the pain and suffering that we see in the
universe. But what about the pain and suffering that is brought on by
natural events. Why does not God stop these from happening.
B) God, in creating a universe with pain and suffering, created the perfect
universe.
1) The real issue at the center of this argument is their seems to be
purposeless pain and suffering in the world. The proponents of
this argument will generally concede to the free will argument since
it shows that most of the pain and suffering we see is the result of
bad choices made. The real argument is in the pain and suffering that
comes about by way of hurricanes, tornados, earthquakes, etc. One
atheistic philosopher stated it this way, there is no reason or purpose
the deer to suffer a broken leg from a falling tree. It seems that things
such as this have no purpose. Since they have no purpose, then why
does God allow them to happen? Why did Katrina have to happen?
Why did the tsunami have to happen? These are all questions that are
valid and need to be addressed.
2) The answer, I believe, is that God created the perfect world for
FALLEN MAN to exist in.
a) When we see these things happen, I believe that it should create
in us a longing for something better. The better being Heaven
as described in Rev. 21. A place where these things do not
exist.
b) If fact it should almost force us to search for God and that better
place. Remember our moral argument and the fact that we can
measure something only if something perfect exists. We
measure the cold, cruel world against the perfection of heaven.
We know intuitively that there is a perfect place to live and we
should long to be there. This longing should create in us the
drive to get there and it is only possible to get there by
obeying God.
c) Also, this place is where God wants us to be (I Timothy 2:4).
It is God’s desire for us to reside in heaven with him. By
creating a universe that would spark our longing for the better,
God has given mankind the greatest incentive to follow Him
without compromising free will.
d) Also, think about this, if mankind sees the pain and suffering
that exists in this world and thinks that it is bad, what about
hell. This place called hell is 1,000,000 times worse than
anything that we could witness in this life. If mankind does
not like it now, he will surely hate it then. Again we see
that pain and suffering seems to have a purpose.
e) That purpose is to make us long for the better and despise
the worst.
f) In fact I believe that this is what the Bible teaches on the matter.
1) Paul desired this; Philippians 1:23; II Cor. 5:2
2) Jesus indicated this in John 14:1-4
3) Peter indicated this in II Peter 3:12-14
4) I Thess. 4:13-18; I Cor. 1:7; etc...
g) The song “This world is not my home” seems to summerize my
thoughts is this aspect.
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